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J.Riddle 1:52 Mon Nov 13
HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

Apologises if done, getting boring banging on for years about the 2bob shysters, but thought this relevant. Basically says we made a HUGE profit of £80m on the accounts BUT you know when they say "The accounts don't lie", well ours do lie apparently! More smoke and mirrors, spin from the 2 bobs?

CandH Exclusive S. Wetstone

West Ham is set to announce massive profits, as much £80m, early next year when financial accounts are published but in reality remain cash poor.

The Hammers earned TV Money worth nearly £122m last season and London Stadium ticket sales will add up to £40m with up to £38m in the retail shop and commercial sponsorship deals. That means the club’s turnover could reach £200m for the 2016/2017 season which finished in May this year.

Total wages including players is likely to have reached £90m and based on last years figures we can also expect another £30m in external administrative expenses/outgoings which include the £2.5m for rental of the London Stadium and £9.5m in agent fees.

With turnover as high as £200m and total outgoings as high £120m, West Ham could be publishing a paper profit of £80m before player trading/transfers. Net spending on transfers over the 2016/2017 season reached around £30m so net profit could around the £50m mark.

Despite this potential huge profit in the accounts West Ham remain relatively cash poor and this year they were forced yet again to borrow money from Media Rights and Funding mortgaged against their training ground, shop leases and London Stadium lease. This annual loan is akin to an overdraft to inject much-needed cash flow into the club.

A senior source close the club explained to Claret and Hugh:

“The ‘notional profit’ will look like a very false and high and not equal to cash flow; we paid out £15m towards the work converting the stadium and a further £10m to convert the shop/offices and making the stadium have the look and feel of West Ham.

We made all payments up front but the £15m can only be written off over the 99-year lease (so £150k a year in our accounts), similar, the £10m is written of over 10 years at £1m a year. So whilst £25m was paid out, only £1,150,000 is allowable for tax in year one thus creating a £23.5m profit”

“Similarly on transfers say a player is bought for £20m on a 5 year contract, we write it off in our accounts at £4m a season, but usually pay 50% deposit (paying rest over 12 or 24 months), so for every £20m spent on transfers you get a shortfall of £6m in our accounts”
“Supporters will say ‘where has the profit gone?’, I hope this explains that profit does not equal cash flow”
As the old business saying goes: Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity but cash is the reality!

Willtell 11:13 Thu Nov 16
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

I think Seam Whetstone was the man that wrote a similar article last year about the profits of WH. I twice pointed out the errors in his figures as he included Payet's sale in his turnover figures. He argued that it was turnover but unfortunately he was talking bollocks then and I have no doubts that he is talking bollocks now.

I guarantee that without doing a single sum that WH will not make £80m profit although they may well make the £200m turnover figure if broadcast, season ticket, clothing, sponsorship and other revenue streams do well.

It would be nice if WH did make an £80m profit as it might stop the owners pointing to our £100m debts but the author is talking nonsense.

Alex V 3:43 Thu Nov 16
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

>>> Alex I am always willing to be wrong and willing to entertain the counter view but the Cavalho transfer ended up a disaster from a PR point of view IMO.

Again I agree. But if the club made perfect decisions but continued with their bad or non existent PR I think we'd end up very happy in the end. What the club does is more important than how it's perceived by supporters (imo).

>>> The owners have not got the wealth to compete just on that alone...

Well they're not bankrolling endless spending. Some supporters seem to think that's a stick to beat them with, rather than just the most sensible approach.

>>> S&G seem to think there is a shortcut but are clearly about making money and increasing wealth short term rather than putting in the foundations for the long term health of the playing side of their business

Of course it's to the club's benefit to make money because that money can be invested to improve the position of the club, but many fans seem to misinterpret that as sheer greed. As I'm sure we both agree the long term health of the playing side is the missing focus - not just a more sensible transfer strategy but also proper planning, staffing, facilities, joining the modern era etc.

Alex V 3:16 Thu Nov 16
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

>>> Oh and Alex - I don't get the idea you have that net spend is irrelevent

I don't get it either. I've never said that.

Sir Alf 8:19 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

Alex I am always willing to be wrong and willing to entertain the counter view but the Cavalho transfer ended up a disaster from a PR point of view IMO. Or at least it ended up with fans very disgruntled/angry. Are we saying that could not be avoided? Its those expectations again which S&G set in the first place. They do not manage them or should I say ever try to contain them.

The Carvalho episode is typical of them. They put in a relatively derisory bid 23 - 25 million against 40 odd they wanted. Sullivan and Gold were initially indicating Marseille were insulting with their 25mill bid for Payet when we supposedly wanted 40 - 50 so one assumes they might realise their bid was a non starter with Sporting and since they did not follow it up there was never really a negotiation at all? But Sullivan defends himself saying he did bid when the Sporting director calls him on it.

The owners have not got the wealth to compete just on that alone but worse still they have seem to have no strategy or plan to achieve progress any other way. The Spurs way has taken a long time and still not delivered trophies but progress has been achieved. Not always perfect but their investment strategy and emphasis on youth is something we should try to emulate at least.

S&G seem to think there is a shortcut but are clearly about making money and increasing wealth short term rather than putting in the foundations for the long term health of the playing side of their business. The training set up for example is one barometre. Amateur in comparison to contemporaries. The youth policy has been non-existent. The ground is half baked just like the squad,.

They created their own reality and will be facing increasing backlash unless results improve and league position too.

Dwight Van Mann 6:59 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

how I feel after reading Alex V's asinine postings....

http://www.halloweenforum.com/attachments/tutorials-and-step-by-step/88669-stiltbeast-corpsing-technique-100_8173.jpg

Side of Ham 6:50 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

*decent

Side of Ham 6:48 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

There’s only one sure way to the next level which our move was sold to us as V and rumford has kindly listed it for us.

All your theories are just that V so not worth discussing and not one club has ever sustained themselves at that level let alone made their expansions work unless they’ve spent big or already had very recents squads to begin with.Spurs are the only possible different route but they have yet to actually win a major trophy and they still have a history within in the game to get great players to sign even before the PL was created.We have a reputation of punching above our weight and then selling our all better players to bigger clubs not just one or two.

Basically your fantasy of building a squad to put us challenging the top six is bollocks and only Spurs have got close to that and they’ve had a history within the game to get better/or potential great players to join them.We are still signing the rejected players from big clubs around Europe.

Crassus 6:18 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

Alex V 6:16 Wed Nov 15
I'll get back to you shortly on this - calls to attend to

Crassus 6:17 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

Oh and Alex - I don't get the idea you have that net spend is irrelevent
Investment is key to any business; one with such lofty directorial statements as ours, and within the context of hugely rising revenue streams and diminishing overhead - vital, if it is to confer reality upon the pr spin
All eminently achievable too but spun poorly when not delivered

Alex V 6:16 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

Crassus 6:00 Wed Nov 15

>>> If you take a look at the account details that I put up you will see that the move will have had a directl and immediate positive impact upon finances

Good. But the question is how the club is run to capitalise on better finances. I look forward to reading criticism or praise of these decisions. Using Carvalho as an example, I'm sure there's no doubt the club could have spent £40m to secure the signing, but really that isn't the issue imo - the question is whether that would be beneficial to the club. Just having the cash to do so does not make every decision that costs money beneficial.

>>> to profess no interest in PR is about as disengenuous as your player arguement within the context of West Ham and it's ownership

I don't really understand the point you're making. Please rephrase.

JustAFatKevinDavies 6:07 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/17489659

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/17607436

rumford 6:04 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

Side of Ham.
The gross spend for the top six over the last six years.
City 790 mil
Chelsea 684 mil
Man Utd 673 mil
L/pool 470 mil
Spurs 421 mil
Arsenal 348 mil.

Spurs have managed to recoup virtually all their spend on player sales.
I don't know how these figures compare with ours but suspect they are way behind even the likes of Arsenal.

Crassus 6:00 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

Alex
If you take a look at the account details that I put up you will see that the move will have had a directl and immediate positive impact upon finances
And that ignores the enhanced tv revenues - to profess no interest in PR is about as disengenuous as your player arguement within the context of West Ham and it's ownership

Takashi Miike 5:53 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

*thought*

Takashi Miike 5:52 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

as I though you fucking weird cunt, you have no answers

JustAFatKevinDavies 5:40 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

you suck the life out of me V, you depressing cunt.

Alex V 5:36 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

>>> The point is the whole handling of the Cavalho transfer which was a PR disaster.

Hard to know how much of that was down to the owners. They courted a player, haggled over the price, and the deal didn't go through. That's really all they did.

>>> the whole handling of the move by the owners and message overall was one of a step change being possible if we moved and that creates expectations.

Yes. Another PR issue. Maybe the upshot of all the criticism is that they should hire better PR, but it's not really a topic that interest me.

I'm not sure it's possible to move to a bigger stadium and be ambitious and not create some expectations. That's why I'm interested in any evidence of claims made by the owners that can be perceived to be misleading fans.

There are two issues. Firstly, how long does a bigger stadium take to affect the revenue of a club positively in order to achieve any ambition? Is 12 months enough time to judge? I say probably no. So judging on results now is probably way too early to judge imo.

And secondly, if the club does struggle after a move to a new stadium, how is it reasonable to react? I would argue it's very reasonable to be disappointed and to be critical of where mistakes might have been made. What I think is unreasonable is to say "You promised us the world so clearly you are liars" - the tone of that I find unhelpful and a bit pointless. Or to make up theories about how the owners never even wanted to be ambitious in the first place - the conspiracy theory mentality that has mostly taken over on here.

I'm all for reasonable criticism of the owners. As I have been since 2010. Not much of what I currently read is that.

One McAvennieeeeee 5:31 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

OOOHHHH ALEX ALEX

ALEX ALEX ALEX ALEX ALEX V

Alex V 5:25 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

Takashi Miike 5:21 Wed Nov 15

They bought nobody else because a three-headed octopus called Polly told them not to. My proof...

"fact theory, they did as Polly said. no more signings, no one in one out, no carvahlo, no more money spent. fact theory, no conspiracy"

Takashi Miike 5:23 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

where's your list of the other conspiracy theories?

Sir Alf 5:21 Wed Nov 15
Re: HUGE profit of £80m on the upcoming accounts!?

The point is the whole handling of the Cavalho transfer which was a PR disaster. Sure we do not want to overpay but again the impression given was that we were haggling over the price not that we had not put a proper bid in or one that was derisory.

But again, the reason these dealings come under the microscope is the expectations.

Alex I think you might agree , whether intentional or not , the whole handling of the move by the owners and message overall was one of a step change being possible if we moved and that creates expectations.

They should have been managing those but were being intellectually dishonest at best. We know why because saying things like "it could take perhaps 5 or even 10 years to see the step up we envision and to see our long term strategy come to fruition" would likely have created some more resistance from fans to the move.

The problem they have is that the only benefit seen has been an increase in their wealth ( albeit on paper).

Until we see results on the pitch the cloud hanging over them will continue unabated and will intensify. And the more defensive they are the worse it gets.

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